25 Years of War: 5 Questions with Steve Lillywhite - March 2, 2008

@U2 interviews the legendary producer of U2's War album

@U2, March 02, 2008

Matt McGee


There's a soccer match on TV, another one coming in via a bad Internet feed, and the audio of the latter match can be heard on Sirius satellite radio. This was the scene at Steve Lillywhite's house when he picked up the phone to talk about the War album -- made long before the days of satellite radio and online soccer matches. What was planned as a five-question interview with War's producer turned into something closer to 10 questions with plenty of enjoyable memories on the occasion of the album's 25th anniversary.

Matt McGee: Neither you nor the band originally intended that you would produce War. So what happened that put you back in that chair?

Steve Lillywhite: Having done Boy, which was pretty successful, and then October, which was a bit of a dip due to various things -- Bono losing his lyrics, the typical not-having-enough-time-to-do-your-second-album, and all that -- I said to the band, "Look, you really do need -- you should try another producer." And they did go off and do a little bit of recording with a guy called Sandy Pearlman, who had done Blue Oyster Cult. Then they gave me a call and said, "Steve, what are you doing in September?" So, I said, "Nothing." And they asked, "Well, do you want to do our third album?" And I said, "Well, I've never done three albums with anyone." So, I went.

What was the hesitation on your part?

The hesitation on my part was, for some reason I had this silly idea that producers could work with lots of different bands, so it was good for bands to work with different producers. I did say to them after Boy, you should use someone else for October. And they said, "Why? We really enjoyed it." So, I said, "All right, then." But after October, I said, "Really, guys, it's been great fun, but I work with lots of different bands all the time. You don't. You need to learn from other people, because my way of making records is only my way. Other people make records completely differently, and you should learn. If you really want to be the big band that you want to be, that's how you should be."

So, that was my reasoning. In those days, I thought bands should work with different people. But in this current climate, I would never have got to do the third album, because someone at the record company would have said, "Wait, they need a change of producer."

Or, "We need to drop them altogether."

Or, "We need to drop the band altogether," which, the boss of the record company -- the guy below Chris Blackwell -- apparently wanted to do. And it was Chris Blackwell who said, "Hang on. There's something about these guys that I love. Let's give them another chance."

We know the October sessions were a real struggle. How would you describe the band's approach to the War sessions? Were they more focused?

Yeah, I think it was a case of, "OK, guys, we need to be The Clash." I always have these memories of Bono saying to Edge, "Don't do that! Don't be like The Edge! Be like Mick Jones!" -- trying to push Edge into a more aggressive guitar playing. Edge is a very whimsical, ethereal sort of person, and I think Bono was trying to get him to be more pointed and more sharp. He had his echo box, and you play around the sound you make, so Bono was pushing him to be more aggressive. I seem to remember the words "The Clash" came out more than once in the sessions.

How much talk was there about finding a hit single or having the album be a breakthrough on the charts?

Absolutely none! Absolutely no talk whatsoever, and never on any of the first three albums. There was no talk of what's going to be the radio song? Never! It was art. We were making music. And a lot of producers will say this, so it's not my line, but all the songs are equal. You don't put more effort into one song than any other.

It was funny -- it was actually one of the young guys in the studio, one of the runners, who was going, "Ohhh, that song, 'New Year's Day,' that's fantastic!" And we were all going, "Really? You like that one? But we like 'Surrender,' or we like -- " [laughs] I mean, it's only time that gives you hindsight. I love "New Year's Day," but I loved "Surrender" and some of the other ones.

War sounds nothing like Boy or October. What did you do to make that happen?

Every time you do more than one record with someone, you try to go on a journey. You try to not repeat the things you've done before. My thought is, it's going to sound like the same band, anyway, because it's going to be the same guy singing. You can try to dress it up and try to make that difference. Yourself -- you're going on a journey, and you're taking your fans along with you. It's never about trying to copy what you did before. It's always about the art, about trying to make something that's timeless and being true to yourself. That's one thing I've really learned from the band. Bono has often said he's a traveling salesman, and he wants to make sure the thing he's carting around the world for the next two years is something he's proud of.

Do you have a favorite story from the recording sessions for War?

I do remember, on "New Year's Day," actually -- I mixed "New Year's Day" in 15 minutes. What happened was, I'd spent a whole day mixing it, and everyone seemed to think it's good enough, but I had this thing in the back of my head that it really could be better. We were running out of time and had one more song left. Bono said, "Give me 20 minutes to write the lyrics. I've just got to finish them off." So, I said, "OK. I'll remix 'New Year's Day' in that time." I knew [the song] so well. I just put the tape on and did it. And I always say to people, if I could mix "New Year's Day" in 15 minutes, if I've got three hours left [on another project], I've got plenty of time.

Where does War rank for you among all the U2 albums?

Oh, God, I'd never like to say that! I mean, my favorites probably go Joshua Tree, Achtung Baby, All That You Can't Leave Behind ... [thinks] then maybe War joined on with Atomic Bomb. Or maybe Boy, I don't know. I like Pop, but I think it was a bit ... confusing to people. And a few people have recently come up to me and said how October moves them in a certain way that no other record does. I think when they're great is when they're really focused. Oh! Unforgettable Fire -- I like that one, as well. They've made some good records! [laughs]

Yeah, they've had a modicum of success! [laughs]

They have! But you know, a lot of effort goes into it. It doesn't come easy for them. In some ways, their inadequacies in certain areas have really helped them because it's made them push themselves more. Do you know what I mean?

I do, yes. They're very up front about where they struggle.

Yes. They don't jam. I mean, they were so nervous at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame because they thought they might have to jam -- that's what people did at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. But that's not their style at all, God bless them. [laughs]

Any other stories [I can share]?

"40" -- that was literally the last song, the last morning?

Yes, that was the last morning. We were finishing the record, and the next band were literally -- this is very Irish -- the band who were booked in the studio from the following day, they were this band who really thought they wanted to get a jump on their sessions. They wanted to start at 7 in the morning. So they were literally standing outside the studio at 6:30 in the morning, while Bono was in there doing the last vocal of "40." And I basically mixed it, and it was all done.

But every U2 album has this legendary last -- you know, the last day of recording any U2 album is fantastic. Even on the last one [Atomic Bomb], it was coming up to midnight, and we were all thinking, It's going to happen. We're [actually] going to finish at midnight. And then Bono walks in and says, "OK, guys, I've got an idea! Set up the band, we're going to record" -- well, it was called "Xanax and Wine" at the time, and later became "Fast Cars." So we did that song in three hours at the end of the night.

Even "Party Girl" -- see, I had this other thing that you should never spend more than a half an hour on a B-side. So, I would let them all have one go -- you could play it once. They didn't know what they were playing, but it was just a real snapshot of that little moment.

Great thanks to Steve Lillywhite for helping @U2 celebrate the 25th anniversary of U2's War album.

(c) @U2, 2008.

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